Here’s a good clip from John Clements focusing on an often forgotten aspect of swordfighting; the dynamic gripping of swords. Some time ago I wrote an article about this and although I find it lacking today, I still think it has some good images, even if I really should add more to them.
This topic is important for our understanding of the historical fencing, I believe, and I suggest you take a look at both the clip, the article and the images. However, keep in mind that both the clip and my old article brings together a lot of unrelated sources that sometimes have little to do with each other, which can create an impression of more widespread and common use than what was the practical reality. This is an unintentional sideeffect of trying to put the light on the mechanism which was in fact used by many masters, especially those in a line that seems to be related to the Marxbrüder, as seen in the article about Meyer’s Masters.
Here are also some really good Hammaborg clips exploring this from Codex Wallerstein and Peter Falkner. Falkner was of course a Marxbrüder Captain. Also, Jörg Wilhalm shows this, for instance with the Brechfenster, again seen in the Meyer’s Masters article.
Here are the images that I used in my old article, where I briefly discussed this topic.
More reading: How do you grip a sword?
Just when one thinks he’s getting the hang of it…. You find something completely new and fascinating. Thanks for sharing!
You do not need an ARMA YouTube video to learn gripping of the longsword.
Sadly, the Smurfs of the so-called WMA Community keep saying ooohh and aaahh every time yet another hyperbolic & tautological demonstration gets churned out of that godforsaken-town-Sherman-laid-waste-only-to-become-ARMA-headquarters.
Nobody gave a goddamn when a work of true interpretive brilliance was produced:
Hans Talhoffer 1459 Ringen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0fV1oB3j4c
Of course that was for Ringen, so I guess nobody would give a goddamn about it, now would they?
But JC posts some of his typical bullshit, and it goes viral. Never mind his history of incompetence, maliciousness and cowardice. It becomes undeservedly popular nonetheless. What loyal fan-boys they are.
What the hell are they all thinking? I can tell you what I am thinking:
Gripping the longsword
http://lessonsontheenglishlongsword.blogspot.com/2013/03/gripping-longsword.html
Actually I don’t agree here Jeffrey. Very few in the HEMA community goes crazy with the ARMA videos, quite the opposite in fact. Most people completely disregard everything, or strongly objects to the more odd stuff that comes out of ARMA. I just don’t see the “fanboys” or “smurfs” you speak of. Mostly I see ridicule or anger aimed at especially JC (and judging from some of the stories I have heard, with good reason too).
And as I explained here and elsewhere, I think if you take the video too literally, then you will get a very unbalanced image of how common these grips were.
If you check my Facebook account or this site you will find that this is the very first ARMA video I include, and again, not without a few words of warning. However, the reason why I choose to add it, is because I think it does put the light on something too many miss.
So please consider what you are posting and to whom a bit more before posting things like this. You probably don’t mean it, but I could interpret this as quite insulting and aimed directly at me as I posted this news item… I know you didn’t, since you wrote an identical post elsewhere.
As for the Talhoffer Ringen clip, well that certainly deserves to be posted here too, just like many other good clips of Bolognese, “Italian” footwork, Jogo do Pau, Liechtenauer Versetzen and some of the other clips that have been posted here already. There certainly is no bias against Ringen. Keep in mind that anyone who has registered on the site can also post good clips… 😉
Hello Roger
I have read your reply to my harsh commentary, and I respect what you have said.
What I said was not directed at you personally.
Howsoever ranting & raving it was, please would you do me a favour, and get rid of the failed HTML tagging therein? (I was trying to direct readers to a posting I made at my web-log, etc.) Thus may it be clear & clean text for those who may choose to read it.
Thank you & regards,
JH
We’re cool, Jeff. I know how you feel about JC. The HROARR is supposed to be a place where we can all meet and share, and that includes the ARMA too. At the same time everyone is free to their own opinion and can express it as long as it is legal. 🙂
For some reason the comments don’t accept HTML code, so I will have to take a look at that tomorrow.
Question,
In the last video, how is the purpose of this technique different from the Zornhau? In any case it looks slower and also, in that position you are really open to stabs. The only main difference I see is in the footwork. This technique is definitly more powerful as you use the swing from the hips to parry, but again it seems slow.
I see it as a very situational technique, probably good against heavier swords that have way more powerful swings. Your thoughts?
Not sure I follow you Sven. The last video shows an Unterhau into Ochs although with reversed rear hand. There are a few tricks with these that require these grips. For instance you can bind from below with the point towards your left, similarly to the Hengen/Schrankhut, only with your left arm crossed over the right. From here you can do some peculiar, but confusing and effective winding movements that are simply too hard to describe here.
Slow is also tied to perception and distance, as well as manipulating your opponent into going for an opening you expect or even wish him to go for.
Yes, all these are situational techniques I agree, but at least in some cases, it is also a matter of creating certain situations that enable them I think.